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H-scenes; necessary or not?

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Okay, so I was just wondering what you all thought about this.

Lemme just make the question more clear though. Do you think H-scenes are necessary in VN's?

Yeah, I know that may sound stupid, but I figured that there'd be plenty of opinions on this out there, and, well, I WANNA HEAR EM. Oh, and I personally agree with @MichaelBlueTheKing 's opinion on this topic, which is, to put it simply: H-scenes are basically a bonus. If there is an 18+ version, then I'll get it. If there isn't an 18+ version, then I don't really mind, I'll still get it (hope I got what he said right xD.)

So, yeah. Any thoughts on this topic?

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I hate any company that censors h-scenes, like what MoeNovel does, but VNs do not inherently need h-scenes to be enjoyable. Hell, my top 2 favourite VNs don't have any h-scenes.

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I really like H-scenes in VNs though ofc they aren't necessary, but calling anything necessary is kind of odd. I think VN is a medium that is quite unique in its use of H-scenes. I can't really think of any other medium that has titles where there is a nice balance between H-scenes and non H-scenes. In other things it seems mostly like something is either porn or it isn't porn. Eroanime for instance almost only have H-scenes with little to no character building, to me this makes the thing bland as it just feels repetative since many characters feel the same without any distinction. It becomes something like, girl A has sex with her brother number 10, girl B gets raped by thugs number 5 etc. There are ofc some that are based on Nukige that does build the characters, but they are usually rushed having maximum 1 min between H-scenes. Also eroanime generally look like crap. Eromanga are usually just too short to build that much though in their case the art is usually better and more diverse. Eroge can use a long time to build characters and have a lot of romantic moments before they do it, which makes it much more impactful.

 

If the VN originally was 18+ I do not want to get a censored version of it and would rather boycot it than buy an all ages version if that is the only thing available, or if it really interst me a lot buy it in japanese. Ofc if the VN originally didn't have 18+ I will get it if it interest me. For instance I have many VNs based on series that had an anime before the VN which are original all ages on PS vita or PS4. Some examples are Nisekoi: Yomeiri!? and Date A Live: Twin Edition Rio Reincarnation

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Most of the time H-scenes are just there to have H-scenes. At best they are emotional and/or arousing enough to read them and fit well into the story, but most of the time it's more like: " ''I love you, let me F you. '' ''Sure, wanna do it right here or do I have to beg for it?'' " I've read about 250~ VNs and there haven't been more than 5 H-scenes outside of Nukige that I didn't skip because they really ruined the mood or the characters completely.

 

I mean seriously, who'd believe that a horny Donkan-Hetare Protagonist with about -1000 exp in this kind of stuff bones his first GF three hours nonstop only seconds after their first kiss... ---.---

というわけだ H-scenes are unnecessary but could be a nice addition if done right. And if done wrong... well, at least they can be cringy enough to be fun if drunk... I'm looking at you FS/N

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I recently had a discussion with a friend about people that refuse to buy VNs that censor out the H-scenes. We both agreed that it's not a good basis for forgoing an enjoyable VN, but I also asserted that the H-scenes can make for a nice embellishment of a romantic relationship if done properly. 

I see there being two types of H-scenes. The first kind is meant to portray the love between characters that most people I know seem to skip through. The second shows at least one of them turning into a horndog and they end up doing it in a way that turns-on a decent percentage of the readers while the others suspend their disbelief.

Oh, there's also a third kind where the scene is out-of-place, has little to no romantic context, and isn't enticing in the least. Everybody skips these aside from readers that want to laugh about how bad it is.

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I talked about it in a podcast episode:

 

But TLDR I guess I'm one of the few people who openly loves (vanilla) H-scenes in eroge. Having hot (well IMO) scenes with characters/couples you're attached to is nice.

As if they're necessary? Well let's just say vast majority of the best selling VNs DO sell and the only way you can get away with non-H is if you're a super big company like KEY or Type Moon. 

Otherwise having H is super necessary to get sales especially in Japan apparently.

 

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10 hours ago, AngeTime said:

Otherwise having H is super necessary to get sales especially in Japan apparently.

Well, everyone wants to lewd their own waifu. It's understandable. 
But I've played Dies Irae in Steam version without even caring about the H-scenes. Hell, the only one obviously censored was the footjob by Rusalka xD 

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11 hours ago, AngeTime said:

As if they're necessary? Well let's just say vast majority of the best selling VNs DO sell and the only way you can get away with non-H is if you're a super big company like KEY or Type Moon. 

Otherwise having H is super necessary to get sales especially in Japan apparently.

I mean, it makes sense to be honest. From what I've read, Japanese people (the younger generation in particular here) are not really interested in getting in relationships or going out on dates or having, ya know what, anymore. They're too tired due to their jobs, and as a result, they don't care about dating or searching for a partner. Their career is their top priority. 

So, ya know, put two and two together, and it kinda makes sense why VN's with H-scenes would sell much better.

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Yep. Real-life dating and married life is falling out in Japan to be replaced by over-the-top eroge H-scenes and ideal 2D romances that couldn't possibly work in the real world. The next step is virtual/holographic partners. 

Viva la Nippon!

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12 minutes ago, bakauchuujin said:

They probably should fix up in their work hours though, it is not really good for them.

Yeah. 15 hours a day 6 days a week doesn't leave much time to play VNs. 

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52 minutes ago, AngeTime said:

I guess that means they gotta step up the 18+ otomes so the 2D female otakus can get stuff too

Fun fact: most female otakus -not fujoshis, those are something completely different and about the only ones that would even think about buying H-Otome- are doing ya-know-what to 18+ Moege or cutesy art VNs, according to a friend who lived like 2 km away from Akihabara for a few years .

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Oh believe me I was surprised to see straight/bi female otakus admit they're all for 18+ moege H and stuff in random places.

I've just wondered how stuff like that can appeal to them when it's written mostly for male otakus lol

Edited by AngeTime

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They are not necessary, if the VN is designed to be without them. I love stuff like Ever 17 and Steins;Gate. But it blows my mind a bit, when a lot of people would say, that for example they are not necessary in a game like Fate/Stay Night, I understand if you don't want them if you don't want to see that kind of content. But in my experience having a h-scenes in a longer, well thought out story is amplifying their meaning and enjoyment even if they are not done super great. Like, you get invested in characters over a long period of time, get sucked into atmosphere because of a good story and if you end up liking that character a loot to boot the h-scene can end up being very enjoyable to experience.

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1 hour ago, AngeTime said:

I've just wondered how stuff like that can appeal to them when it's written mostly for male otakus lol

The power of cute anime girls :)

 

Btw a fun thing is that there are many female anime characters that play eroge.

Some examples, Sena from hagenai, Momo from to love ru, Konata from lucky star, Konoha from gamers and Maria from The Testament of Sister New Devil

Edited by bakauchuujin

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Well personally, if it's a romance VN I won't touch it without h-scenes. It's not even about "using" them, the relationship just feels incomplete to me if there's no sex. If I wanted that I'd watch romance anime. Defloration scenes are usually really cute too :x

More plot-focused VNs I'm fine without them, but only if the original was all-ages too. Censorship isn't acceptable.

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Just now, twisted said:

The relationship just feels incomplete to me if there's no sex. 

Well, I can kinda see where you're coming from with this point, however I do think that it's possible to have a good romance story, where the relationship feels complete, without the use of H-scenes as well. 

Just now, twisted said:

Censorship isn't acceptable.

Seems like the majority of us have the same view on censorship- unsurprisingly, of course.

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Hm...I suppose my answer would be: "I suppose on an individual title basis, you could argue they are not necessary. However, if VNs didn't have H-scenes or as many H-scenes, I wouldn't really notice the medium as a whole since there would be one less thing to separate it from the pack of entertainment". I certainly appreciate that there is a certain uniqueness to the VN medium where explicit sex is integrated into the work rather than something standalone (think traditional adult videos with the flimsiest of plots) or a "fade to black". Some may argue that it takes the mystique and imagination away from the story, but I disagree. Sexuality is something that's almost universally covered up in the West (thanks for nothing, Puritans) but is an integral part of the human experience. It's something that's always bothered me in media like TV and movies where even sex scenes get cut off or use 'natural' censorship (with sheet covers, etc.).  

 

In terms of industry matters, I'm similar to another person on the internet named sanahtlig and absolutely refuse to buy butchered versions of VNs (FUCK YOU MOENOVEL) or an All Ages only release when an 18+ version is available (G Senjou no Maou being the notable example here). I did make an exception for Eien no Aselia, but the artwork is dated enough that I didn't care as much. It still rubs me the wrong way though...

I am also much more willing to give VNs with uncensored art a glance and am a bit looser with my wallet than normal for those titles since I want to Japanese companies and artists to actually draw genitalia, but I digress.

 

Sorry if this is a bit reductionist, but even if I end up skipping through H-scenes I'd still consider them to be necessary. 

Edited by Darx
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7 hours ago, MichaelBlueTheKing said:

I'm still waiting for Denpasoft to release the unrated version xD 

I thought they already had, a little while back? o.O

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51 minutes ago, Black Heart said:

I thought they already had, a little while back? o.O

Nope. After more than two years, they still don't have a release date.

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Yeah as someone who's used the G-sen H scenes quite a number of times I would definitely support that version when it comes out as opposed to getting the non-H Steam version.

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19 minutes ago, AngeTime said:

Yeah as someone who's used the G-sen H scenes quite a number of times I would definitely support that version when it comes out as opposed to getting the non-H Steam version.

I sent Denpa a ticket asking for infos.
They usually answer me in 1-2 days. 
I've asked many other things before xD 

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