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zecknor

Titles with mosaics/nothing underneath

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14 hours ago, zecknor said:

Mosaics is quite different issue from "Honorifics" or other tiniest reasons you can think of. Since the west do not require mosaics by law yet it is still censored under mosaics when being brought over here. While Mangagamer and Jastusa have been able to push for and release many uncensored or no mosaic works I don't see why we should lower our standard for new entries into the market. That would only allow the new comers and other Japanese publishers to give us half ass ports of their titles and expecting to rake in the money. If a new localizer was serious about bringing the titles in for the fans they would try to get the best thing possible for fans in the west, unless you want another Sekaiproject that half asses everything and kickstarts everything to just make money.

This is the point I don't get. Mosaics are lower standard because someone managed to release a few games with badly drawn thingies instead of mosaics. If that would be your point then ''murricanizing'' the names or making a token chraracter black/SJW/a marine and giving them names like Joe, Jack, Cindy would be the next logical step. Let's be honest, how many of you met a guy named Shirou Emiya or Rintarou Okabe in RL and how many Millers & Smiths (or the equivalent in your native tounge) have you met? And why not dub it while we're at it. (Ok, seriously, sorry. That's only me ranting. Please read between the lines and ignore my, hopefully, sarcastic ramblings)

But saying un-mosaiced versions are superior is like saying steam-H-RPGs have good english. There are really only a few exceptions that really poured some work in it, everything else reads worse than anything SP could ever hope to summon from the depths of translation hell.

If most people want uncensored, my opinion should by no means have any influence.

 

But asking for something and demanding for it to be a standard is pretty haughty.

14 hours ago, zecknor said:

even better give us the option to toggle mosaics and option to have an artist redraw whats under the mosaics since they are adapting it for the western market yes?

I must have missed this post. All for freedom of choice! But I wouldn't call localizing adapting, it looks more like franchising, imo. But I might be wrong about that.

If anyone knows his stuff, feel free to kick my ass. (I really should put that as my sigxD )

Edited by Nelico

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11 hours ago, Nelico said:

This is the point I don't get. Mosaics are lower standard because someone managed to release a few games with badly drawn thingies instead of mosaics. If that would be your point then ''murricanizing'' the names or making a token chraracter black/SJW/a marine and giving them names like Joe, Jack, Cindy would be the next logical step. Let's be honest, how many of you met a guy named Shirou Emiya or Rintarou Okabe in RL and how many Millers & Smiths (or the equivalent in your native tounge) have you met? And why not dub it while we're at it. (Ok, seriously, sorry. That's only me ranting. Please read between the lines and ignore my, hopefully, sarcastic ramblings)

But saying un-mosaiced versions are superior is like saying steam-H-RPGs have good english. There are really only a few exceptions that really poured some work in it, everything else reads worse than anything SP could ever hope to summon from the depths of translation hell.

If most people want uncensored, my opinion should by no means have any influence.

I in general have no idea what you are talking about. How is wanting the art uncensored having anything to do with wanting SJW stuff inside the game or have anything to do with the name? The original CG's are NOT drawn with mosaics. They actually have to hire a guy in the studio to add mosaics to the cg the artist drew in the process and the original drawing had no mosaics. The mosaics are tacked on due to Japanese laws and have nothing to do with preferences of the Japanese devs. Adding SJW on the other hand is completely a different matter that does not relate to law and only has things to do with the companies political stance etc.

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14 hours ago, zecknor said:

I in general have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm really sorry for this hot pile of dung I've written. Drinking and internet isn't a combination I should repeat:disgust:

 

Please, everyone, just pretend I didn't post anything, please.

 

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7 hours ago, Nelico said:

I'm really sorry for this hot pile of dung I've written. Drinking and internet isn't a combination I should repeat:disgust:

 

Please, everyone, just pretend I didn't post anything, please.

 

Damage already done : D

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I agree with the statement that bad art is better than mosaics.  I've never thought about the option, but I'd probably rather have "nothing" instead of mosaics, if the art was never drawn.  The reason is that mosaics take me out of the game experience and remind me about laws in other countries that I think are stupid.  Bad art doesn't do that.

I also like the idea of crowdfunding or something like that to have the original artist or one of the artists mentioned in this thread draw in any missing art.

But most importantly, whichever direction is chosen, please just be honest.  As people have mentioned, some other companies aren't honest when they release games with mosaics or cut content.  Either they hide their actions or they give a generic answer like "technical limitations" or "the current situation in some countries".

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I prefer hair, light, foreground etc. objects covering the parts rather than mosaic when option is available. As it looks more artful and still accomplishes the goal of covering something up. Not sure why people always go the easy route of mosaic when they could actually show that they care and are willing to offer good art.

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8 hours ago, Malamasala said:

objects covering the parts rather than mosaic when option is available. As it looks more artful and still accomplishes the goal of covering something up. Not sure why people always go the easy route of mosaic when they could actually show that they care and are willing to offer good art.

You just answered your own question. It is easier, nuff said. But the idea of "tell, don't show" might not work for H-scenes, as they are designed to put your eyes on exactly those places you want covered.

 

 

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On 2.02.2018 at 4:06 PM, akerou said:

Hiring the original artist can be difficult depending on the situation. They might not be involved anymore with the dev, or simply busy with a different project etc.

We will, however, certainly look into all the different options available and try our best to deliver mosaic-free versions if at all possible.
The first title that doesn't have anything drawn under the mosaics is Sanoba, and we'll keep you guys posted on this matter.

Sooooo... Do u have any news about this one? :) Something that u were able to compromise with devs  and make us all happy ppl :)

Also gratz about Fureraba release ; )

Cheers

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I don't want art that wasn't done by the original game staff. I'd prefer mosaics in that case, although I'd like them made as small as possible without it looking weird.

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Figure I'd chime in with my two cents too, on various localization aspects that have been brought up by others. May as well try to tip the scales of future localization efforts toward my preferences, eh? :x

  • I absolutely do not want anything not done by the original staff, as per the above post. I'm a purist in that regard for certain.
  • I don't get two F's about honorifics or not, but I find that leaving them in tends to be the better option simply because it sometimes leads to extremely awkward English wording if you try to write them out of the script. For those that prefer no honorifics, I think it's in their best interest to acknowledge the cultural differences here and suck it up. To an extent, this may depend on the VN being localized, since if there is no dialogue where writing out the honorifics requires exceptional lingual gymnastics, then it may be okay to remove them in the English text.
  • In general, I prefer bad uncensors to mosaics but there's definitely a threshold at which the mosaic can be unobtrusive enough and/or the uncensor shop bad enough to make me reconsider. As a huge fan, Princess Evangile is a good example VN: I think MangaGamer's unmosaics are objectively not-very-good and the mosaics are certainly not the most intrusive, but I still lean toward prefering the uncensored CGs. They have to be pretty awful, and/or the mosaics extremely precise and minimal, before I would prefer the mosaics. Of course, everyone has their own preferences... or tolerances.

Even if I'd rather have an amateur-or-better uncensor though, I can deal with reasonable mosaics. PE, or Sanoba Witch if you want one of NekoNyan's upcoming titles as an example, have mosaics that don't extend much beyond the actual genitals. The biggest turn off for me are the REALLY MASSIVE ones that seemingly cover FAR MORE THAN NEEDED, drawing attention to them and killing my immersion. Unfortunately, close-up shots tend to make even "reasonable" mosaics a huge turnoff for me, as the camera angle and proximity to naughty bits forces the mosaics to take up large portions of the image. :/ It's fine when it comes to full body shots, though it'd be nice if they just drew me more softcore images where "convenient censorship" can do away with any need for an actual censor more often. :P But that's not a localization problem, heh.

Arguing about this might seem pointless and/or petty, but it's important for our voices to be heard as consumers (which is why I'm bothering to post). Every additional vote of confidence toward asking, pushing for uncensorship increases the odds of us getting what we want in the future, even if it's just a teeny tiny bit. It might be one more VN localized uncensored. One more artist might make an effort to actually draw something decent under those mosaics. One more developer might allow the localizer(s) to which they sell their IP license to uncensor a VN they would've required stay censored in the past for localization. You never know. It's worth taking a couple minutes of your time to voice your desires and concerns.

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Can I chime in the sex scenes in fureraba kinda put me off as the female genitalia look fine but the males....are this smooth shiny mass that looks like a weird growth more than an actual reproductive organ. Would have preferred mosaics in that case.

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Just for clarification since some people seem to misunderstand my post when I said there's nothing drawn under the mosaics in Sanoba in the other thread.
 I guess that was poorly worded, my bad.

There is obviously something drawn under there, but it's very basic and was created on the assumption that there'll be mosaics.
What that means is, there are no details under the mosaics, and pixels of the mosaic layer were adjusted and colored to make it look as good as possible.

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1 hour ago, akerou said:

Just for clarification since some people seem to misunderstand my post when I said there's nothing drawn under the mosaics in Sanoba in the other thread.
 I guess that was poorly worded, my bad.

There is obviously something drawn under there, but it's very basic and was created on the assumption that there'll be mosaics.
What that means is, there are no details under the mosaics, and pixels of the mosaic layer were adjusted and colored to make it look as good as possible.

Just come and tell us your 2 new titles ; ) Can we expect announcment during this weekend?

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54 minutes ago, Hades said:

Just come and tell us your 2 new titles ; ) Can we expect announcment during this weekend?

We would love to, but one of the companies wants us to announce their game next month, so, unfortunately, we have to wait until then :pocky:

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2 hours ago, akerou said:

We would love to, but one of the companies wants us to announce their game next month, so, unfortunately, we have to wait until then :pocky:

"One of the companies" can we take that as saying the games you are going to announce are coming from two different studios?

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54 minutes ago, Periah250 said:

"One of the companies" can we take that as saying the games you are going to announce are coming from two different studios?

I'm curious about this as well.

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2 hours ago, Periah250 said:

"One of the companies" can we take that as saying the games you are going to announce are coming from two different studios?

Yep, different studios.

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14 minutes ago, akerou said:

Yep, different studios.

sweet can't wait for the announcement, and thanks for all the hard work! 

  • Thanks 1

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9 hours ago, akerou said:

Yep, different studios.

So are the two studios both new ones you haven't worked with before?

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5 hours ago, twisted said:

So are the two studios both new ones you haven't worked with before?

I can tell you that at least one of them is.

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On 7/5/2018 at 12:04 PM, akerou said:

Just for clarification since some people seem to misunderstand my post when I said there's nothing drawn under the mosaics in Sanoba in the other thread.
 I guess that was poorly worded, my bad.

There is obviously something drawn under there, but it's very basic and was created on the assumption that there'll be mosaics.
What that means is, there are no details under the mosaics, and pixels of the mosaic layer were adjusted and colored to make it look as good as possible.

I am planning on buying Sanoba as soon the physical edition you mention become available to purchase, as  this is not a deal breaker for me especially  with the offering of a physical release. But how bad can the quality under the mosaic be. Since title like Funbag Fantasy which is said to have bad quality genitalia  compare to other uncensored title. Still seem to have been positively receive by people who prefer unmosaic release like myself as still  preferable to the mosaic alternative. . At such I think people who prefer unmosaic release would not care that much for low quality image underneath the mosaic , as for most them the mosaic will always look more distracting than any low quality image.

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5 hours ago, Redcomet said:

I am planning on buying Sanoba as soon the physical edition you mention become available to purchase, as  this is not a deal breaker for me especially  with the offering of a physical release. But how bad can the quality under the mosaic be. Since title like Funbag Fantasy which is said to have bad quality genitalia  compare to other uncensored title. Still seem to have been positively receive by people who prefer unmosaic release like myself as still  preferable to the mosaic alternative. . At such I think people who prefer unmosaic release would not care that much for low quality image underneath the mosaic , as for most them the mosaic will always look more distracting than any low quality image.

If it was specifically drawn with the intention of never being shown to the player, then it should probably stay that way. Something bad enough can ruin the image 100%,  and I'm sure people who are diehard about mosaics will still drawn a line somewhere. Even the worst quality genitals in western releases probably look much better than what's in the original assets for this game. 

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20 hours ago, Chuee said:

If it was specifically drawn with the intention of never being shown to the player, then it should probably stay that way. Something bad enough can ruin the image 100%,  and I'm sure people who are diehard about mosaics will still drawn a line somewhere. Even the worst quality genitals in western releases probably look much better than what's in the original assets for this game. 

People who are used to mosaic sometime prefer mosaic over low quality unmosaic image as I brought complain that were have on Funbag Fantasy, so your somewhat right about that. But then again those who are completely used to unmosaic release,  still seem to have not mind low quality image though. Which is why assumed for that crowd a low quality image will not be problem. Still  I do not know how bad the quality of Sanoba unmosaic image, is compare to it. At such the quality could be low enough were  unmosaic people draw a line, as you have said. I think it's not likely, but it still a possibility . While I prefer non-mosaic release I have gotten used them, were they don't bother me too much.  So it's not going to stop support of this title or future title with mosaic,  that I find interesting from Nekonyan. Especially since I have supported a lot title with mosaic release before. I just ask because if that the issue it may worth trying to release of unmosaic release anyways. Now if the reason is instead of artist or company desired either not wanting the art work seen a way that they believe look bad  or due to fear of legal problem from reverse importing unmosaic title in japan. Then I would have silently support the release, since the possibility  of unmosaic release is zero those making any suggesting for it a pointless effort. But if it just believe that image provide by the company to be too low quality to worth releasing they could try to do unmosaic release patch or something an see if it worth pursuing based on the reaction on the quality of those images from those who like unmosaic release have.Still hype for the release anyways, though I am going to wait until to release of the physical version. Since they state  on the blog while they are trying to release at the same time as the digital version, there is a good chance it would not be ready by that date and thus would have later release date.

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